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Discussion: Barracks Cycling
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Strontium76 |
Barracks Cycling
Jan 1 2008, 11:46 PM EST
I don't understand your calculations: I think you don't use the good money to pay the cycle.That's the way I count: Income is (30*Mines + 10*acres) * trade I take 1,15 for trade by default So for 1 acre 100% mines is 46 gold per trun 75% mines is 37,375 gold per turn With 25% barracks army costs are divided by 2. So you have the money you hire twice as much men as with the same amount with 100% mines. (hope you understood... :P ) So with always 100% mines you have 46 gold to spend on your full cost army with always 75% mines, you have 74,75 gold to spend on your FULL COST army! with cycling, you have 46*2=92 gold to spend (but there are cycle expenses!) ! Fisrt conclusion, we have to compare cycling to always 75% mines (always 100% is already worse) Lets take an example: smalville got bigger: 1000 acres. with 75% mines, he produces 37 375 gold per turn with 100% mines, he produces 46 000 gold per turn to build his 25% barracks and destroy them, he needs 250*1000 = 250 000 gold for the cycle, this costs is mandatory, how much time does it take? 250 000/46 000 = 5,43478 turns (46 000 because the 25% barracks won't help) the question is now, how much time is needed to catch up this time (money produced without cycle = money produced by cycle - expenses)? This time is noted T (in number of turns). money produced without cycle = money produced by cycle T * 74 750 = (T - 5,43478) * 92 000 (in both situations the gold is doubled thanks to barracks) T = 5,43478 / ( 1 - 74750/92000 ) = 28,9855 turns!!! Strangely upkeep doesn't change this time (if you earn enough to pay your upkeep with only 75% mines!) If U is upkeep per acre the formula above is T = 250/(46-U) / (1 - (37,375 - U)/(46-U)) = 250/(46-37,375) = 28,9855 turns So use this cycle only if you plan to get away for more than a full day! 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
1. RE: Barracks Cycling
Jan 2 2008, 9:31 AM EST
i do it otherwise, much simpler. 1 depending if you are a mogul or not, and the number of your trades, destroying any building and turning it into a mine, before destroying that mine and turning it into the said building is profitable after x turns. I think it s 34 turns for me. Now about the barracks, it depends on your size. One building gets you Y percentage of reduction to your building costs. (do the math). Building barracks will be profitable only if you plan to spend more than Y on upgrading troops (or making soldiers if you are monger). to sum up, wether or not to build a mine depends on how long you ll keep that mine. Wether or not to build a barrack depends on how much you plan to spend on building your army. 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
2. RE: Barracks Cycling
Jan 26 2008, 5:05 PM EST
I think the calculation is misleading, and possibly wrong, as it seems to only calculate how long it will take to make the money back, rather than being a comparison against not using the method.Also, I put the same values in to the equation as you, and got the same for the first value (12.08), but at 70% mines, I got 15.58, and not 24.451. I found it easier to just set up an excel spreadsheet, with 2 columns, one for the cycling method, and one for not cycling. Each cell down adds the total income per term to the value in the cell above. But even though the cycle method had more income per turn, it started at a much lower value (to account for destroying/buying), and by the time the cycle column has returned to its original value, the other column is far ahead of it. It takes 3 times longer for the cycle column to catch up with the other column, than it does to break even. The value I got for my kingdom were Total kingdom, 2200 acres. Income at 100% mines = 96K Income at 75% mines = 77K To replace 25% mines/barracks = 2200 (acre) x 0.25 (%) x 1000 (gold) = 550K gold, so the cycle column starts at -550K After 6 turns, the cycle method breaks even (just above 0 at 26K) while the non cycle column is at 462K The cycle method only catches up with the other method after 29 turns, at 2233K each. Also you don't get 30 gold per mine, you get 30 ADDITIONAL gold per mine, with 10 per all land (so either "total land" x 10 + "mines" x 30, or "mines" x 40 + "non-mines" x 10) 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
3. RE: Barracks Cycling
Jan 26 2008, 7:31 PM EST
I've worked out a better formula to determine how many turns it will take for the cycling method to pay off I'm not going to show the workings for my equation, as it'll take too long the equation is 100 x Cyc ------------ Trd x 3 x (M1 - M2) where Cyc = %of land to be cycled Trd = trade factor M1= % of mines if cycle method is used M2= % of mines if cycle is not used Cyc is usually 25% (barrack-mine conversions) Trd is 1 + trade agreements x 0.5, so usually 1.15 (1.5 for moguls) M1 and M2 depend on what you build, but M2 is usually 25% higher that M1 Thinking about it now, M2 is higher that M1 by Cyc which would simplify the equation to 100/ 3 x trd which comes out as just under 29 (round up to 29) turns, which is the same regardless of what values I put in (I'm the same guy who made the previous post btw). It seems that it'll take the same time, regardless of any factor but trading. -lvl 50 noob 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
4. RE: Barracks Cycling
Jan 26 2008, 7:38 PM EST
Oh, and as generals have +10% building cost, the time is 10% longer(also, it's "100 / (3 x trd)", rather than "(100/3) x trd" ) -lvl 50 noob 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
5. RE: Barracks Cycling
Jan 27 2008, 9:00 AM EST
(Hopefully this'll be my final post on this. All my previous posts on this can be ignored.)It's actually all a lot simpler that all these calculations make it appear, and the guide almost gives it in the calculation of C The only things that matter are -time -cost per cycle per unit of land (1000) -gold generated More specifically, gold generated is the difference between gold produced by the cycle method, to that produced by the same piece of land on the non cycle method (which is the difference between a mine and a barracks, which produce 40 and 10 gold respectively, so the difference is 30) Of course, trading also factors in, so it would be 30 x trd (rather than just 30) So a cycling piece of land costs 1000 (1100 for some) gold, and generates "30 x trd" gold per turn. So the time it'll take for a cycle to pay for itself is 1000/(30 x trd). AND THAT'S IT! Nothing else needs to be taken in to account (and I can explain why) -Amount of land cycled doesn't matter As it's only a matter of how long each cycled piece of land will take to pay for itself, the amount or % of cycled land doesn't matter. 5 pieces of land cost 5 times more, but produce 5 times more gold, so the time is the same. -Amount of non-cycled land doesn't matter If it's not cycled in the cycled method, nor the non-cycled method, it will produce the same amount, regardless of which method is used, and therefore doesn't need to be included in the calculations -Upkeep Again, it will be the same for the cycled and non-cycled method, so isn't important. -Troops bought Both methods will have the same amount of barracks when the troops are bought, so there is no cost difference here either. So assuming full trade agreement, it will ALWAYSE be -23 turns for Moguls -32 turns for Generals -29 turns for all others -lvl 50 noob 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
6. RE: Barracks Cycling
Apr 17 2008, 10:31 PM EDT
Ugh this is wrong. Read the first Anonymous comment it's correct.Start with 25% barracks. To make it profitable to destroy one barracks and replace it with a mine and turn it back into a barracks the mine has to make more money than the cost of 2 buildings. So assuming you are a non-mogul with 3 trade agreements the mine will make you $30*1.15 = $34.5 per hour. It cost most people $1,000 to build 2 buildings so for most hero types the time is: 1000/35 = 29 hours If you factor in Alchemy being cast every 3 hours it increases you income by about 28% so then the mine would be making $34.5*1.28 = $44 1000/45 = 22.6 hours for most hero types Now if for some reason you wanted to build troops sooner than this it doesn't mean you shouldn't build a barracks. At any time you can calculate if you'll save money buy buying barracks or not, but if you don't wait 22.2 hours then it would have been better to leave the old barracks and not rip them down. So total numbers of hours needing to wait to make it worth while by hero class (assuming full trade agreements) w/o alch w/alch General 31.4 24.4 Mogul 20 15.6 Magician 29 18.5 Other 29 22.6 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Posted Anonymously |
7. RE: Barracks Cycling
Jun 19 2008, 4:07 PM EDT
Ok this is all good for these hero types...What about an automater. The math is much simpler i think. Granted I am not very good in math at all, but this strategy of cycling barriers has worked very well for me. As an automater your elite uit costs 1000G so the money saved on each Unit is 500G with barracks. So if we stay at 100% mines and decide to buy barracks when we need to upgrade our army how many do we need to buy to make it profitable? I have never really had to worry about it until now because I always wait ridiculously long (ie til i have about 4billion in gold or about 2-3 weeks.) Because The G saved is the same as G spent on a building the only way to be profitable is to buy more elites than 50% of your acres. ie if you have 100,000 acres you have to buy more than 50,000 elites for this to be profitable. This is not including the 50G saved on soldiers because you can essentially get them cheaper than this if you buy from dealers at large numbers. Here is an example of this at my acreage. 500,000A 100% Mines. G cost for 250,000 soldiers/elites@1050. = 262,500,000G 75% Mines 25% Barracks. Gcost for 250,000 soldiers/elites@550. + 125,000 Barracks @ 500 +125,000 Mines @ 500. = 262,500,000G So G cost is equal if you buy exactly half as many soldiers as you have acreage and u profit by cycling if you buy more. 500,000 Acres w/ Profit by cycling 100%Mines. G cost for 500,000 soldiers@1050G = 525,000,000G 75% Mines 25% Barracks. Gold cost = 500,000 soldiers elites at 550. 125,000 Barracks @ 500; 125,000 Mines @ 500. = 400,000,000G 125,000,000G profit so at this point I can't tell you a formula for how many hours you need to wait. But I can say divide your G like I just did using a calculator or something and find out whether it will benefit you to cycle. Don't forget to log in regularly to use alchemy. (note at higher G more losses will result from battles this has to be figured in too) Do you find this valuable? |
