Barracks CyclingThis is a featured page

Guide by MKramer at http://warbookforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=196.0

I've been playing around with a sheet of paper all morning trying to figure out when it makes sense to rip down mines, build barracks, and put up mines again in the cycle of army building. I have hit upon a simple formula that is acreage-independent.

We want to know when the Savings of barracks = the Cost of building them and then replacing them with mines again.

S = C

Now I'm going to introduce a few more variables:

P = percentage of mines.
t = hours.
R = Resources expended on troops in Pt.
T = Total resources in Pt.

A = trade agreement factor.
U = upkeep factor

To get an abstract formula, everything will be reduced to the Pt unit. Pt is not a variable, it is a unit. Don't get confused. In the course of doing this, I realized that mine percentage hours, Pt, are the best mathematical representation of resources available. You can just call them "points". Points are held constant for any level of acreage and all costs and earnings can be reduced to points.

Calculating C


C is the cost of building barracks and afterwards replacing them with mines. C represents the costs of paying for two buildings in this cycle (the barracks and the mines.)

Consider a hypothetical kingdom, Smallville, of 100 acres. 1 mine produces 30 extra gold and it takes 33 1/3 hours for it to produce the 1000 gold necessary to build itself and another building. You can abstract this cost to 33 1/3 MINE PERCENTAGE HOURS, or 33.333 per percentage which is rebuilt. To get full barracks, that's 25 * 33.33 = 833.33

C = 833.33Pt

C IS DIFFERENT FOR GENERALS and MOGULS. It's 916 for generals and 750 for moguls. If you are trying to use this formula, make sure to plug in the correct C.

Calculating S


Savings = Resources expended on troops, in other words, S = R.
Assuming we want to spend all our money whenever we do this, R = T - C.
Plug that in.

S = T-C.

We are solving for S = C. By substitution,
C = T - C).

Solve for T in terms of C. T = 2C.

Solving the Equation


Back at Smallville, assume P is 100. We have more than 100 Pt, though! Your total acreage contributes a certain amount of P all on its own. In fact, it contributes exactly 33 1/3 Pt. (10/30). But wait! There's more. Trade alliances also need to be factored in. A = 1.15 for non-moguls, 1.5 for moguls. Meanwhile T at any t will be reduced by the upkeep cost. Here we introduce another concept, the upkeep factor U. To find U, divide your upkeep cost by your gross income.
T = (33.33 + P)A(1-U)*t

By substitution,

2C = (33.333 + P)A(1-U)*t
---

Once you have determined your own, P, C, A, and U, you will have t.
---

THE MAGIC FORMULA IS....

t = 2C / ((33.33+P)A(1-U)).
This formula works at any acreage and for any type of troop purchase. P, C, A, and U are all information available to you from your kingdom stats pages and from this post.

I'm an automator. I'm plugging in A = 1.15, C = 833.33, U = .1, P = 100.

t = 12.10 hours. This is a reasonable number. It means that if I keep on 100% mines, I will break even from a barracks splurge in 13 hours (always round up). Anything after that is a savings from not building the barracks. Anything before that, it's cheaper to not build the barracks. If P is less, t is higher. For instance if you keep on 70% mines (i.e., P = 70), t = 24.451.

Whew. Have a nice day.



Added by lvl_50_noob 01-Feb-2008--------------------------------------------------

It's much simpler than that

Cycling is better than permanent barracks, if;
3 x C x D is bigger than 100*

Cycling is better than no barracks, if;
B x C / A is bigger than 500*

Permanent barracks are better than none, if;
B / ( A x D ) is bigger than 15

*(As Generals have +10% building costs, these vales are also 10% higher for them. 100 -> 110, and 500 -> 550)

Where
A is your total land
B is the amount of Gold spent on troops per hour
C is the number of turns you are willing to wait between cycles
D is the gold increase factor

If you're having trouble working out these values.

B.
Most people usually spend their entire income on troops each hour, so if you do this, then the value for B is your total income, which can be found on the "your kingdom" page.


D.
The gold increase factor is the amount your income is increased by trade agreements, and alchemy.


-Trade agreements increase your income by 5% each, (10% for moguls).
This value is usually +15% for most, and +50% for moguls

-Alchemy is not an hourly factor, so needs to be averaged out.
take the number of times alchemy is used per day, and dividing by 24, to get an hourly average.
Then take 85% (multiply by 0.85) of the hourly average (as alchemy gives 85% of your revenue).
This final value is the average percent alchemy increases your gold by each hour.
This will probably be +28% for most, and +46% for wizard.


Then just combine the 2 factors to get the average gold increase per hour factor.
It's easier to use the values as decimal increases, rather than percentages, so just divide the value by 100, and add 1 ( 15% -> 1.15 | 28% -> 1.28)

The final value will usually be 1.47 (1.15 x 1.28).


lvl_50_noob
lvl_50_noob
Latest page update: made by lvl_50_noob , Feb 1 2008, 11:53 AM EST (about this update About This Update lvl_50_noob Edited by lvl_50_noob


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Started By Thread Subject Replies Last Post
Balefire Cycling Made Simple (at last) 0 Mar 5 2009, 8:56 PM EST by Balefire
Thread started: Mar 5 2009, 8:56 PM EST  Watch
"So total numbers of hours you need to wait to make it worth while by hero class (assuming full trade agreements)

w/o alch w/alch
General 31.4 / 24.4
Mogul 20 / 15.6
Magician 29 / 18.5
Other 29 / 22.6"

That means to make cycling effective, you need to have that number of Hours worth of income to spend all at once on your units, and then change it right back. So if you're an Automater, and you want to make cycling profitable, and you have all your trade agreements, you need to save up 23 hours worth of gold (plus the 1000 gold per building, which is the same amount), buy your barracks, use it all, (Except the gold to rebuild mines) and then change them back. Simple, right?

Let's make it simpler.
1. Figure out how much it costs for you to build and destroy your buildings (1000g* 25%of your acres) we'll call it "X"
2. Get at least 2 times that much gold. At least 2X
3. spend the first half of that (1/2X) to build your barracks.
4. Spend ALL BUT the other half (1/2X) on troops. Any kind. It doesn't matter.
5. Last, Spend the last 1/2X to rebuild your mines, aaaand...
you're done!

There, a user friendly version.

Now for brain-heads who want to know why this works... when you cycle your barracks, you temporarily double your spending power, but it costs a lot. In order for it to be worth it, you must spend more than half of the "doubled" money on troops. If it costs you a million gold to cycle your mines, you have to spend a million gold while the barracks are up on troops to "gain back" that first million. So, all you have to do is figure out how long it takes to earn 2 million gold, and that's how long you have to save, regardless of your trade agreements, alchemy, etc.

I know your pain, I am an Engineer.
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Strontium76 Barracks Cycling 7 Jun 19 2008, 4:07 PM EDT by Anonymous
Thread started: Jan 1 2008, 11:46 PM EST  Watch
I don't understand your calculations: I think you don't use the good money to pay the cycle.

That's the way I count:
Income is (30*Mines + 10*acres) * trade
I take 1,15 for trade by default

So for 1 acre
100% mines is 46 gold per trun
75% mines is 37,375 gold per turn

With 25% barracks army costs are divided by 2.
So you have the money you hire twice as much men as with the same amount with 100% mines. (hope you understood... :P )
So
with always 100% mines you have 46 gold to spend on your full cost army
with always 75% mines, you have 74,75 gold to spend on your FULL COST army!
with cycling, you have 46*2=92 gold to spend (but there are cycle expenses!) !

Fisrt conclusion, we have to compare cycling to always 75% mines (always 100% is already worse)

Lets take an example:
smalville got bigger: 1000 acres.
with 75% mines, he produces 37 375 gold per turn
with 100% mines, he produces 46 000 gold per turn

to build his 25% barracks and destroy them, he needs 250*1000 = 250 000 gold

for the cycle, this costs is mandatory, how much time does it take?
250 000/46 000 = 5,43478 turns (46 000 because the 25% barracks won't help)

the question is now, how much time is needed to catch up this time (money produced without cycle = money produced by cycle - expenses)?
This time is noted T (in number of turns).

money produced without cycle = money produced by cycle
T * 74 750 = (T - 5,43478) * 92 000 (in both situations the gold is doubled thanks to barracks)

T = 5,43478 / ( 1 - 74750/92000 ) = 28,9855 turns!!!


Strangely upkeep doesn't change this time (if you earn enough to pay your upkeep with only 75% mines!)
If U is upkeep per acre the formula above is
T = 250/(46-U) / (1 - (37,375 - U)/(46-U))
= 250/(46-37,375)
= 28,9855 turns

So use this cycle only if you plan to get away for more than a full day!
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Anonymous Cycling better than 100% mines? 2 Jan 28 2008, 2:31 PM EST by Anonymous
 
Thread started: Jan 27 2008, 5:06 PM EST  Watch
For cycle to be more profitable than just keeping it at 100% mines

Cost of cycling must be less that amount saved on troops

Cost of cycling =total land x 250

Saving by cycling = half cost of troops bought.

So the amount spent on troops must be 500 times the amount of land in order for cycling to be more profitable than 100% mines.


e.g.
For 100 acres of land
cost of cycling = 25'000


Spending 100 times the land on troops
-100% method costs 10'000 for troops
-Cycle method costs 30'000(5'000 for troops, 25'000 to cycle)
The cycle method loses 20'000 gold.

Spending 500 times the land on troops
-100% method costs 50'000 for troops
-Cycle method costs 50'000 (25'000 for troops, 25'000 to cycle)
Both methods are even.

Spending 750 times the land on troops
-100% method costs 75'000 for troops
-Cycle method costs 62'500 (37'500 for troops, 25'000 to cycle)
The cycle method saves 12'500 gold.


So cycling is better than 100% mines if 500xLand worth of gold is spent on troops, per cycle.
Cycling is better than 25% barracks, if cycles are 29 turns apart.

So cycling beats 25% if you wait at least 29 turns, and spend over 250xLand on troop (it's half than 500, because of the saving).
And cycling is also better if you've got a good income. The lower your income per acre, the longer you'll have to wait between cycles for it to pay off ( time = (250xLand)/hourly income )

-lvl 50 noob
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